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AddictoCue
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Joined: 02 Dec 2006
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Location: Des Moines, Ia

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:28 pm    Post subject: SumoCue Reply with quote

Wanted to start a new thread to cover some things in SumoCue I would like to see.

One solving technique I have found is missed (while trying to solve a Texas Jigsaw Killer, which I still haven't solved (#20)) is a elimination involving multiple nonets locked into multiple rows/columns.

Here is an example: (sorry for the format)

.-----------------------.-----------------------.-----------.-----------------------.-----------------------.
|(11) |(15) |(7) |(7) |(11) |
| 12378 12378 | 6 9 | 45 | 345 234 | 12378 12378 |
| .-----------+-----------------------: :-----------------------+-----------. |
| |(13) |(12) | |(15) |(9) | |
| 123 | 45 | 4578 4578 | 23 | 6 9 | 78 | 123 |
:-----------: :-----------.-----------'-----------'-----------.-----------: :-----------:
|(18) | |(10) |(17) |(21) | |(14) |
| 3456789 | 89 | 23 | 23478 14567 1278 | 45 | 12 | 123456789 |
| '-----------: '-----------. .-----------' :-----------' |
| | | | | |
| 12345678 12345678 | 12357 123567 | 14567 | 9 78 | 12345678 12345678 |
:-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------+-----------------------+-----------------------:
|(7) |(18) |(9) |(18) |(14) |
| 123456 123456 | 1234589 145678 | 23 | 4578 345678 | 5689 5689 |
:-----------.-----------: .-----------: :-----------. :-----------.-----------:
|(7) |(15) | |(7) | |(5) | |(15) |(14) |
| 123456 | 123456789 | 789 | 123456 | 67 | 1234 | 5678 | 123456789 | 5689 |
| | :-----------: :-----------: :-----------: | |
| | |(18) | |(17) | |(15) | | |
| 123456 | 12345678 | 123457 | 123456 | 89 | 1234 | 1234567 | 23456789 | 5689 |
:-----------: | '-----------: :-----------' | :-----------:
|(19) | | | | | |(13) |
| 234678 | 12345678 | 1234578 1234567 | 89 | 3457 12378 | 23456789 | 2345678 |
| '-----------: .-----------'-----------'-----------. :-----------' |
| | |(14) | | |
| 2346789 2346789 | 1234578 | 23678 14567 1278 | 12378 | 2345678 2345678 |
'-----------------------'-----------'-----------------------------------'-----------'-----------------------'

At this point, the solver gives no hints. However, Jigsaws 1,4,7 only have candidates [1] in columns 1,2,3, therefore all other candidates [1] in those columns can be eliminated, in this case, both [1]s in rows 5,7 of column 3. I see this in regular jigsaws also.

Another feature that I would find extremely helpful is a bit more complex, but doable, and would be extremely helpful when solving certain killers:

If the program had the ability to allow the user to select any number of cells, and then assign an intended total to those cells, then list the configurations for that total with the corresponding cell candidates, you could use this when trying to solve multiple innie/outie combinations and eliminations. I use this technique by utilizing and excel spreadsheet that lists all possible combinations for 3 and 4 digit cages along with the total arrived by the AutoCompare. This solving technique is realized by the solver in most cases, but in the TX JigKiller #20 it misses innies eliminations in row 6 columns 3,5,7 (which are required to add up to 21). Any reason why it would catch other innie/outiie differences but not this one?
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AddictoCue
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Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 5
Location: Des Moines, Ia

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:32 pm    Post subject: Name for technique Reply with quote

If there isn't a name for this jigsaw technique (I'm assuming there is, but just in case) I would suggest 'JigFish' since the elimination logic it follows is similar to other Fish. Incidentally, SumoCue doesn't catch any of these eliminations that I have found so far. That is, a candidate locked in any number of cells in the same number of rows/columns.
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AddictoCue
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Joined: 02 Dec 2006
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Location: Des Moines, Ia

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:36 pm    Post subject: Same puzzle Reply with quote

There is another JigFish elimination in the above puzzle for digit 6 row 9 column 4 that the solver doesn't catch...
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Ruud
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Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 601

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have already implemented Law of Leftovers, fishing and Nishio in the version I'm currently testing. This helps me make the weekly puzzles a bit more difficult than average. With the bugs that need to be fixed, these solving techniques will also be released soon.

Saving a partially solved puzzle is a good suggestion. I also plan to add copying the pencilmark grid to the clipboard in a format that can be read by SudoCue, allowing you to use the advanced solving techniques for a killer.

Ruud
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Pete
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Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 113
Location: Cincinnati Ohio, USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ruud FYI:

summocue and sudoku.org.uk

i see sumocue now has all the jigsaw grids from the above site available.

here is how my helper throws them into the puzzle

variables
k=integer
ls= longstring has the entire puzzle file
jiggrids[1..20] the grids same order as on site
sf=small string
//********* realavent code
if pos( 'Jigsaw',ls)<>0 then begin jigsaw:=true;
sf:=''; // this may be jig grid

if pos('Number ',ls)<>0 then begin
n:= pos('Number ',ls);
sf:= copy(ls,n+7,10);
n:= pos(',',sf) ;
sf:=copy (sf,1,n-1);
K:= strtointdef(sf,0) ;
//this looked at the header of the print page " Number ###, "extracts puzzle number
memo2.lines.Add('puzzle number"'+sf+'" >'+inttostr(k));

// this transulates the puzzle number into jig grid number
// MOD is remainder of division for you apl fans
// extremes go backwards 20..1
// daylies go 1..20
// this will not work for puzzles before the contest grids 1..8 by Michael Mepham.
//so perhaps ill get the date when the site went from 8 to 20 grids and put in the code for older puzzles

// k puzzle number to jiggrid #
if pos( 'Extreme',ls)=0 then k:= (k+11) mod 20
else k:= 21-(K MOD 20);
if k<1 then k:= 20;
if k>20 then k:=k mod 20;
jiggrid:=jiggrids[k];

/// this is all the code to change the puzzle numbers to grids 1..20
// we gotta normalize to the right part of the clock cycle and MOD never has a 20 remainder
// so we go from 1-20 instead of 0..19 to correspond to the site map

if strtointdef(sf,0)<>0 then
memo2.lines.Add('Standard Jigsaw Grid Design # is '+inttostr( k)+' '+copy(jiggrid,82,100));
sf:='';
end else jiggrid:='No Standard Grid Found';

// the next step will pull the jiggrid from the text file into SF
// if it doesnt match the standard one it defaults to sf
//**************
Ive been putting this off until the extremes hit #20 i had no idea what order they were in.. It was totally defying me.
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