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lynn893

Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 83
Location: Toronto

 Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:58 pm    Post subject: Explosion 30 Ruud, on a rating of 'very hard', what solving methods are needed???? (So far, after doing all techniques that I know of [hatching, locked candidates, triples, 2 quads, etc.] and going as far as I can (through each of the grids numerous times, I'm at a dead end and not even 1/5 of puzzle done). I'm going to have to start guessing soon.... logically of course.
Glyn
Major Major Major

Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 92
Location: London

 Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:57 pm    Post subject: Hi Lynn I used TRYfurcation, I'd love to know if anyone found a more logical approach. _________________I have 81 brain cells left, I think.
Ruud
Site Owner

Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 601

 Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:21 pm    Post subject: A very hard Clueless (explosion) can have: - Line-box reductions, (center-dot reductions) - Naked pairs, triples, quads - Hidden pairs, triples, quads - X-Wing It also has a strong interaction between the central puzzle and the 9 constituent puzzles. In this case, you need to solve 7 of 9 constituent puzzles before you can complete the "blue" grid. Ruud_________________“If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it, we would be so simple that we couldn't.” - Emerson M Pugh
lynn893

Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 83
Location: Toronto

 Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:38 am    Post subject: [quote="Glyn"]Hi Lynn I used TRYfurcation, I'd love to know if anyone found a more logical approach. [/quote] Never heard of that technique... can you elaborate on it? As of right now, I'm using 'logical guessing' Is it the same? Ruud, I'm stuck.... not sure if I'm going to make the lists this week unless I get really pi\$\$ed off at this explosion and go back to the solving guide and try to figure out some of those techniques that you guys are all so good at.
Glyn
Major Major Major

Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 92
Location: London

 Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:27 am    Post subject: Because the unknowns that make each of the nine constituent Sudokus insoluble are the missing centres of the blocks, I picked one Sudoku and tried some combinations. I was lucky, in that the reduction in the possible candidates gave some line box reductions in the central puzzle and the whole thing dropped out from there. I can't remember which constituent Sudoku I worked with, but the ones with the least options for the centre spots seem promising. TRYfurcation is a play on words (more desperate than bifurcation). _________________I have 81 brain cells left, I think.
lynn893

Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 83
Location: Toronto

 Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:44 am    Post subject: I DID IT!!!! Whew, that was the toughest sudoku I've EVER done. Ruud, my husband and my children are severly pi\$\$ed at me because I've completely neglected everyone and everything (with the exception of meals and emergency situations) for the past 3 days while I figured this one out. No, seriously, that was one tough explosion. I think I ended up doing 5 sets of biwhatever (logical guessing is what it comes down to) from grid 10 to end up sorting this one out. I think the next update for the Clueless helper should be some solving techniques (like SudoCue) has [ie: coloring would be a great addition to the helper) I can go and relax now (or get cleaning!) mmmm, relaxing sounds good after this stressful explosion....
Pete
Gold Member

Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 113
Location: Cincinnati Ohio, USA

 Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:34 pm    Post subject: coloring This was a hard one . i could make no progress at all until i started looking at center dot intersections. That still doesnt make it easy but it made the crucial start_________________"It gets dark at night" - Olbers
Princess Amy
Hooked

Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 46
Location: USA

 Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:21 pm    Post subject: I'm not familiar with most of the techniques yet, but I solve these. I only know the hidden and visible duets/ trios/quartets, swordfishes, and the unique pairs, and I get through them. This time, I had a unique pair thing with two numbers, I think 7&9, that was shaped like a swordfish. When I get stuck, I go back to the center dots in the blue sudoku. I wish they turned colors or eliminated the ones that are already used, but I think that request goes in a different area. Amy Grace
nj3h
Gold Member

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 111
Location: Virginia / USA

 Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:29 pm    Post subject: Ruud, Previously you posted that the subject puzzle can be solved with the techniques listed below. ==================== A very hard Clueless (explosion) can have: - Line-box reductions, (center-dot reductions) - Naked pairs, triples, quads - Hidden pairs, triples, quads - X-Wing It also has a strong interaction between the central puzzle and the 9 constituent puzzles. In this case, you need to solve 7 of 9 constituent puzzles before you can complete the "blue" grid. ===================== I am reading other messages that indicate coloring, unique pairs, etc were used. Of course, one could always use a higher lever technique if found, but I presume that for this puzzle only the techniques listed in your previous message are needed. Regards, George
Ruud
Site Owner

Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 601

 Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:51 pm    Post subject: George, you are correct. In my program for creating these overlapping puzzles, only those listed techniques are implemented. Other techniques may be useful for players who master them (especially coloring), but the puzzles are always solvable without them. cheers, Ruud_________________“If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it, we would be so simple that we couldn't.” - Emerson M Pugh
nj3h
Gold Member

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 111
Location: Virginia / USA

 Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:51 am    Post subject: Hi Ruud, Just curious if your overlapping program can create puzzles with specific techniques required (or allowed) like SudoCue? In other words, have you set it up where you pick the techniques from a list or are they just hard-coded into the program? These overlapping puzzles are just great. They are a whole new world of fun. Don't let your overlapping puzzle generator get rusty. Regards, George
Glyn
Major Major Major

Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 92
Location: London

 Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:26 pm    Post subject: Kept trying this to see if simple techniques would work and eventually confirmed that was true. Watch out in the constituent puzzles for candidates in the centre spots locked in a row or column, these eliminate other occurences in that row or column. I had always checked those when I saw candidates locked to a row or column in a box of the Clueless grid. This time I needed to check for candidates in a row or column locked in the centre spots, this eliminates other occurences in the centre spots outside that row or column. That is a little trickier to spot as you don't have the clueless grid to help you. Hope this helps. Perhaps Ruud will write a guide to variants at some point in the future, haven't seen much on that anywhere._________________I have 81 brain cells left, I think.
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