Ruudiculous tag Killer - PANIV

[sudokuEd]

To help celebrate Australia Day long weekend, time for a tag Killer. SumoCue has a real struggle finding a final solution. Don't know if it has a logical solution (hence Ruudiculous)- but hopefully together we will find one.

The cages of PANIV are inspired by a really fun puzzle Nasenbaer showed me (a samurai Killer from djape) that had lots of diagonal cages - those diagonal cages drove me nuts.

Some suggested 'rules' for PANIV tag Kiler

1. One person gets started with some good moves

2. then lets someone else 'tag' in to take over

3. the first person waits at least 12 hours before posting again.

4. if no-one posts for 24 hours (once we get started), I'll post SumoCue's hints

5. this is a diagonals and mystery cells puzzle: 1-9 cannot repeat on the diagonals and some cells have no cages.

3x3:d:k:588858882307:5125:5382:5382:538458885888:5125:5382:5384:5384:538428353339:5125:51255384:4634:64276427207228494634:36:6427335831134907:4634:2:4:642726093113:4907:4907:54:56:1225703643:5693:4158:63:64:132627:5693:56934158:7:9:7456932118:4158:4158:

[Nasenbaer]

PANIV - ha ha - I'll get you for that, Ed.

EDIT: Some additions and corrections were made, thanks to Para, Andrew and Ed, they are all highlighted in blue. There was also a request by Andrew to include the preliminary steps (which I didn't put down because I'm lazy), now they are here.

OK, I'll start. The empty cages irritated me so my first step was to "give them a face", or, in our case, a number.

Preliminary steps (easy way, without writing down all poss. combinations)
0a. 10(2) at r6c5, r7c4, c8c4, r8c5 : no 5
0b. 10(3) at r1c2 : no 8,9
0c. 11(2) at r3c2, r4c3, r4c7 : no 1
0d. 9(2) at r1c4 : no 9
0e. 21(3) at r1c7 : no 1,2,3
0f. 8(3) at r4c5 : no 6,7,8,9
0g. 8(2) at r8c8 : no 4,8,9
0h. 14(2) at r7c6 : no 1,2,3,4,7
0i. 19(3) at r5c8 : no 1

1. 45 on r123456 : r56c1 + r6c2 = 15(3)
1a. N7 is 45(9) cage

So now you might want to use the following version:
3x3:d:k:5888:2561:58882307:5125:5382:5382:538458885888:5125:5382:5384:5384:538428353339:5125:51255384:4634:642764272072284946346427335831134907:46343876:642726093113:4907:490711574261736435693:41581157426265693:56934158115742626:56932118:4158:4158:

2. 45 on N4 : r4c2 + r5c3 = 5(2) = {23} -> 2,3 locked in N4
3. 45 on N6 : r3c9 + r5c6 = 15(2) = {69|78}
4. 11(2) at r3c2 : r3c2 = {89}, 11(2) at r5c6 : r6c4 = {89}
4a. -> no 8,9 at r3c4 and r6c2
4b. Also no 8,9 for R8C2 (and theoretically for R3C7), over D/ (Addition by Para)
5. 8(3) at r4c5 : 8(3) = 1{25|34} -> 1 locked in 8(3) -> no 1 in r5c5 because of D/
6. 45 on r123 : r3c279 = 18(3) -> min. r3c29 = 14 -> r3c7 = {1234}
7. 12(3) at r5c6 : r56c7 = {12345}
8. 45 on N1 : r23c4 + r4c2 = 12(3) (doubles allowed!)
8a. no 1 in r2c4 : r23c4 is 9 or 10 but no 8,9 in r3c4 -> no 1 in r2c4
9. N4 : 15(3) = {159|168|456} -> no 7
10. N4 : 25(4) = 7{189|459|468} -> 7 locked in 25(4)
11. 45 on N5 (2 innies, 1 outie) : r3c7 + 14 = r5c6 + r6c4
11a. r5c6 + r6c4 : minmax 15..17
11b. r3c7 : minmax 1..3 -> no 4 in r3c7
12. 45 on N5 (4 outies) : r5c3 + r356c7 = 9(4) (doubles allowed!) -> r5c3 = {23} -> r356c7 = 6 or 7 -> 1,2 locked in r356c7 for c7, no 5 in r56c7, no 3 in r5c7
13. Cleanup : no 6,7 in r8c8, no 9 in r4c8
14. 45 on c1234 : r157c5 = 15(3)
15. 45 on N9 : r7c78 + r8c7 = 21(3) = {489|579|678} -> no 1,2,3
16. 45 on N8 : r78c6 + r9c5 = 15(3) = 5{19|28|37|46} -> 5 locked in 15(3) -> no 5 in r7c8 (seen by all poss. for 5)
17. 45 on N12 : r3c2 + r2c6 = 15(2) = [87]|[96] -> r2c6 = {67}
18. 21(3) at r1c7 : 21(3) = 7{59|68} -> 7 locked in 21(3) -> no 7 in r2c789 and r1c456
19. no 2 in r1c45
20. N3 : 4 locked in 21(5) = 4{1259|1268|1358|1367|2357}
21. 45 on N36 : r3c7 + 12 = r25c6
21a. r3c7 : minmax 1..3
21b. r25c6 : minmax 13..15
22. N2 : combination check {67} in r2c6 : 20(4) : {2567|3467} not poss.
23. N9 : combination check between 16(4) and 8(2) : {1258|1456|2347 not poss. for 16(4)
24. 45 on N2 (3 innies) : r2c6 + r23c4 = 16(3) = {169|178|268|367|457} -> no 2 in r2c4 poss.

So this is how far I got (for now).

Code: Select all

.-----------.-----------.-----------.-----------------------.-----------.-----------------------.-----------.
|(23)       |(10)       |           |(9)                    |(20)       |(21)                   |(21)       |
| 123456789 | 1234567   | 123456789 | 134568      134568    | 12345689  | 56789       56789     | 123456789 |
:-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------.-----------+-----------+-----------------------'           |
|           |           |(13)       |           |           |           |                                   |
| 1234567   | 123456789 | 123456789 | 3456789   | 123456789 | 67        | 345689      12345689    12345689  |
|           :-----------:           '-----------:           '-----------+-----------.           .-----------:
|           |(11)       |                       |                       |(8)        |           |(18)       |
| 1234567   | 89        | 123456789   1234567   | 123456789   123456789 | 123       | 123456789 | 6789      |
:-----------:           :-----------.-----------+-----------------------+-----------'-----------:           |
|(25)       |           |           |(13)       |                       |(11)                   |           |
| 1456789   | 23        | 1456789   | 123456789 | 12345       12345     | 3456789     2345678   | 123456789 |
:-----------+-----------+-----------:           '-----------.-----------'-----------.-----------:           |
|(15)       |           |(11)       |                       |(12)                   |(19)       |           |
| 145689    | 1456789   | 23        | 123456789   23456789  | 6789        124       | 23456789  | 123456789 |
|           '-----------+-----------+-----------.-----------'-----------.           |           '-----------:
|                       |           |           |(10)                   |           |                       |
| 145689      1456      | 1456789   | 89        | 12346789    12346789  | 1234      | 23456789    23456789  |
:-----------------------'-----------+-----------'-----------.-----------'-----------+-----------.-----------:
|(45)                               |(10)                   |(14)                   |(22)       |(16)       |
| 123456789   123456789   123456789 | 12346789    12346789  | 5689        5689      | 46789     | 123456789 |
|                                   :-----------.-----------+-----------------------+-----------:           |
|                                   |(10)       |(10)       |                       |(8)        |           |
| 123456789   1234567     123456789 | 12346789  | 12346789  | 123456789   456789    | 1235      | 123456789 |
|                                   |           :-----------+-----------.-----------+-----------'           |
|                                   |           |           |           |           |                       |
| 123456789   123456789   123456789 | 12346789  | 123456789 | 12346789  | 3567      | 123456789   123456789 |
'-----------------------------------'-----------'-----------'-----------'-----------'-----------------------'

Peter

[Para]

Ok just caught up. just got a small addition to one of your steps.

4. 11(2) at r3c2 : r3c2 = {89}, 11(2) at r5c6 : r6c4 = {89}
4a. -> no 8,9 at r3c4 and r6c2

Small adition on 4a. Also no 8,9 for R8C2 (and theoretically for R3C7), over D/

Para

[sudokuEd]

Hopefully got something valid this time. Deleted one post. Thanks Andrew for picking up on my plop.

Great start Peter. Looks like this is going to be a beauty. rcbroughton's solver got through it OK, so no excuses for us

First some comments on previous steps, then a couple more.

4a. -> no 8,9 at r3c4 and r6c2

Sweet.

4a. Also no 8,9 for R8C2 (and theoretically for R3C7), over D/

Love those D's.

12. no 3 in r5c7

Nice move between nonets

15. 45 on N9 : r7c78 + r8c7 = 21(3) = ....578} -> no 1,2,3

should be 21(3) = ..678}. Didn't pick this up first time - so led me up the garden path: we're even now Peter

16. 5 locked in 15(3) -> no 5 in r7c8 (seen by all poss. for 5)

Clever

Now some more. Used some chains to get this - if there's an easier way to progress -

25. 45 n3 -> r2c6 + 3 = r3c79
25a. r2c6 = 6 -> r1c78 = {78} and r3c79 = 9 = [36] ([18/27] blocked by r1c78)
25b. r2c6 = 7 -> r1c78 = {59} and r3c79 = 10 = [28/37] ([19] blocked by r1c78)
....................................= {68} and r3c79 = 10 = [19/37] ([28] blocked by r1c78)


26. [edit:cell order mistake corrected]from step 3 r5c6 + r3c9 = 15(2) = {69|78}. combining this with steps 25ab ->
26a. r5c6 + r3c9 = [69] -> r3c79 = [19] -> r2c6 = 7
26b....................= [96] -> r3c79 = [36] -> r2c6 = 6
26c....................= [78] -> r3c79 = [28] -> r2c6 = 7 -> blocked - 2 7's in c6
26d....................= [87] -> r3c79 = [37] -> blocked - r45c7 = {13} with 8 in r5c6

steps 27-31 come from steps 26 - 26d.
27.-> r5c6 = {69}
27a. r45c7 = 2{1/4}: 2 locked for c7,n6
27b. no 9 r4c7

28. -> r3c9 = {69}

29. -> r25c6 = [76/69] = 6{7/9}: 6 locked for c6
29a. no 4 r6c5
29b. no 8 r7c7
29c. no 4 r9c5

30. -> combined with step 25ab -> r1c78 = {68/78} = 8{6/7}:8 locked for r1, n3
30a. -> no 1 r1c45

31. -> 4 innies n3 = {1689/3678} = 68{19/37}: 6 locked for n3

32. 21(3)n23 = {678}
32a. -> no 6 or 7 r1c456

33. 9(2)n2 = {45}:locked for n2, r1

34. 29(4) = {1289/1379/2369/2378}

Code: Select all

.-----------.-----------.-----------.-----------------------.-----------.-----------------------.-----------.
| 123679    | 12367     | 123679    | 45          45        | 1239      | 678         678       | 12379     |
:-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------.-----------+-----------+-----------------------'           |
| 1234567   | 123456789 | 123456789 | 36789     | 1236789   | 67        | 3459        123459      123459    |
|           :-----------:           '-----------:           '-----------+-----------.           .-----------:
| 1234567   | 89        | 123456789   12367     | 1236789     123789    | 13        | 1234579   | 69        |
:-----------:           :-----------.-----------+-----------------------+-----------'-----------:           |
| 1456789   | 23        | 1456789   | 123456789 | 12345       12345     | 345678      345678    | 13456789  |
:-----------+-----------+-----------:           '-----------.-----------'-----------.-----------:           |
| 145689    | 1456789   | 23        | 123456789   23456789  | 69          124       | 3456789   | 13456789  |
|           '-----------+-----------+-----------.-----------'-----------.           |           '-----------:
| 145689      1456      | 1456789   | 89        | 1236789     1234789   | 124       | 3456789     3456789   |
:-----------------------'-----------+-----------'-----------.-----------'-----------+-----------.-----------:
| 123456789   123456789   123456789 | 12346789    12346789  | 589         569       | 46789     | 123456789 |
|                                   :-----------.-----------+-----------------------+-----------:           |
| 123456789   1234567     123456789 | 12346789  | 1236789   | 12345789    456789    | 1235      | 123456789 |
|                                   |           :-----------+-----------.-----------+-----------'           |
| 123456789   123456789   123456789 | 12346789  | 123456789 | 1234789   | 3567      | 123456789   123456789 |
'-----------------------------------'-----------'-----------'-----------'-----------'-----------------------'

[Nasenbaer]

I made some minor modifications to my first post, they are all highlighted.

Small adition on 4a. Also no 8,9 for R8C2 (and theoretically for R3C7), over D/

I should have seen this. I also included this step in my original post, I hope you don't mind, Para.

Wow, you did some serious work in 25 and 26, Ed.

29c. no 4 r9c5

That should read r8c5

34. 29(4) = {1289/1379/2369/2378}

That should read 20(4)

Now that I've catched up I hope I'll find something new.

Peter

[rcbroughton]

Looks like you're going well into this one. A quick one I spotted from here:

35. No 3 in r2c2. There are only 3 possibilities for the 23(4) to contain a 3 - 3{479}/{569}/{578}
35a 4 and 5 only exist in r2c2 so 3 cannot be in this cell for these combos

Richard

[Nasenbaer]

Nice move, Richard.

OK, here are some additional steps.

36. from step 15: if 21(3) = {678} the 6 must be in r7c7 -> no 6 in r7c8 and r8c7

37. no 6,9 in r5c9 and no 9 in r3c6 because r3c9 and r5c6 are {69}

38. 45 on N5 (1 outie, 2 innies) : r3c7 + 14 = r5c6 + r6c4
38a. if r3c7 = 1 then r5c6 + r6c4 = 15(2) = [96]
38b. if r3c7 = 3 then r5c6 + r6c4 = 17(2) = [89]
38c. -> 9 locked in r5c6 and r6c4 for N5

39. no 1 in r6c56

40. 18(3) at r3c9 : no 3,6 in r4c9, also {459} not poss.
Explanation: r3c79 = [19]|[36]
If r3c79 = [19] then r45c9 must be {18} (only poss. left for 1, eliminates {459} and no 6 in r45c9)
If r3c79 = [36] then combination {369} puts 9 in r4c9 -> no 3 in r4c9

Peter

[Nasenbaer]

Sorry to break the no-two-posts-rule but this one is just an extension to the previous observation.

40a. no 4 in r4c9 because 3 in r3c7 means {14} in r4c56

[rcbroughton]

and

41. no 6 in r4c9 either - the 11(2) and 19(3) must use a 6 (total 30(5) with no 1 or 2)

[Nasenbaer]

and

41. no 6 in r4c9 either - the 11(2) and 19(3) must use a 6 (total 30(5) with no 1 or 2)

Sorry, I already removed the 6 in step 40. But you give me an excuse to post again.

42. {47} not poss. in r4c78
Explanation: 1 in r3c7 means {24} in r56c7, 3 in r3c7 means {14} in r4c56 -> no 4 in r4c78

43. N6 : 19(3) : {568} not poss. because of 11(2) -> no 5 in 19(3)

44. 8(3) at r3c7 is {134} -> 4 locked for N5 and r4 and no 3 in r5c5 and r4c7
Explanation: 8(3) = {125} means r3c7 = 1, r4c56 = {25}, r4c2 = 3 -> no poss. combination left for r4c78

45. no 8 in r4c8, no 6 in r6c5

46. N5 : 13(3) = 5{17|26} -> 5 locked in 13(3) and no 3,8 ({238} not poss. because of 10(2)) -> 8 locked in r6c456 for N5 and r6

47. 5 locked in c45 for N2 and N5 -> 5 locked in r89c6 for N8 and c6

48. 5 locked in r45 for N5 and N6 -> 5 locked in r6c123 for N4 and r6

[Para]

You guys, just won't let me post . Gotta look for something new again.

[rcbroughton]

Sorry, I already removed the 6 in step 40. But you give me an excuse to post again.

Ah yes - only saw the 3 from r4c9

49. No 3 in 13(3) in n5
49a. the other cells in n5 total 32 and must include 9.
49b - 9{12578} not possible because {82} would need to be in 10(2) and r6c4 would need to be 6 - but no 6
49c. - 9{13568} not possible because no combo for the 10(2)
49d. - 9{14567} not possible because {46} would need to be in 10(2) and r6c4 would need to be 8 - but no 8
49e - posiblities are 93{1478}/{2567}/{2468} - so no 3 in 13(3)

[Para]

Here it goes the first number.

50. R3C7 = 3
50a.R4C56 is not 3. R4C56=3 -->> R4C2 = 2 -->> R3C2 = 9 -->> R3C7=3 -->> contradiction 2 3's in 8(3) R3C7
50b R4C56={14} locked for N5 and R4

Just did this one quickly there's a lot of steps now but i gotta wait i guess

Para

p.s. this solves it for me just some basics now.

[Nasenbaer]

Congratulations, Para! You cracked it! That was really nice move.

There are a lot of numbers now falling into place, I hope there is not another big problem ahead.

Peter

[Para]

No all basic stuff to the end.

I cracked it with your help.
i just eliminated the 3 when i saw you eliminated the {125} from the 8(3) R3C7 and then it was pretty easy to fill in the 3.

Kinda sucks though when i finally got some time in to really look at the puzzle it falls. Gotta make new plans for tonight

Para