Rejected versions for Assassin 39

Post by **Ruud** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:01 pm

Even though Assassin 39 is not yet available, I want to post these 2 killers using the same cage pattern.

They are ... erm ... too difficult?

3x3::k:7680:7680:7680:4099:4099

3077

4616:4617

7680:7680:4099:6670

3087:4616:4617

4628:4628:4099:6670:6670:4616:4616:4617:4628:4628:5662:5662:5662:6670:4616

804

2853

5662

2858

3619:804:6702:4399

2857

5939:5939

6702:6702:4399:4399:5690:5939:5939

3637:6702

3648:4399:5690:6212:6212

3637:6702:4937:4937:4937:5690:5690:6212:6212:6212:

3x3::k:5632:5632:5632:5635:5635:4357:4357:4357:4360

3850:5632:5632:5635:4110

2575:4360

3850:5140:5140:5635:4110:4110:4360:4360

5140:5140:5662:5662:5662:4110:4360

2852

2085

5662

1322

3363

6702:4655

3113

6963:6963

6702:6702:4655:4655:6714:6963:6963

3637:6702

3648:4655:6714:6212:6212

3637:6702

2377

6714:6714:6212:6212:6212:

Maybe you can have a go at them. It would be a shame to throw them in the cylindrical archive.

Good luck!
Ruud

sudokuEd · Post by **sudokuEd** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:29 am

Rejected Assassin 39V2

Rejected Assassin 39V3

sudokuEd · Post by **sudokuEd** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:08 am

Ruud wrote:Maybe you can have a go at them. It would be a shame to throw them in the cylindrical archive.

Have had a real good go - so thanks a lot for this Ruud. Managed to get out V3 - but V2 is really, really stuck.

This is what I cold find for V2. Hope someone can help from here.

Steps 5 and 6 don't add much at this point: but may open the way for something else.

1. 3(2)n4 = {12}:locked for c1,n4
1a. 11(2)n4: no 9

2. 14(2)n6 = {59/68} = [5/6..]
2a. {56} blocked from 11(2)n6 = {29/38/47}

3. "45"n789-> 5 outies = 31 -> 9 locked r6
3a. no 3 r5c4

4. "45"r1234 -> r5c59 = 11 = [29/38/56/65]
4a. r5c5 = {2356}

5. "45" r5 -> r5c146 = 12
5a. = [147] -> r6c1456 = [28{13}] -> r5c46 + r6c456 = {47/138} -> 22(4)n5 = {2569}
5b. = [156] -> r6c1456 = [27{14}] ([27{23}]Blocked) -> r5c46 + r6c456 = {56/147} -> 22(4)n5 = {2389}
5c. = [174] -> r6c1456 = [25{16}] ([25{25}] Blocked) -> r5c46 + r6c456 = {47/156} -> 22(4) = {2389}
5d. = [183] -> r6c1456 = [24{17}] ([24{26}] Blocked) -> r5c46 + r6c456 = {38/147} -> 22(4) = {2569}
5e. = [192] -> r6c1456 = [23{18/45}] ([23{36}] Blocked -> r5c46 + r6c456 = {29/138}/{29/345} -> 22(4) = {4567/1678}
5f. = [291] -> r6c1456 = [13{28/46}] ([13{37}] blocked) -> r5c46 + r6c456 = {19/238}/{19/346} -> 22(4) = {4567/2578}
5g. note: no other combo's with r5c1 = 2 are possible as only other place for 1 is r5c6

6. In summary 22(4)n5 = {1678/2389/2569/2578/4567}
6a. 11(3) = {128/137/146/245}: no 5 or 8 r5c6

7. 1 in n7 only in r7:locked for r7
7a. no 6 r8c8

8. 26(5)n47 {34568} combo blocked. Here's how
8a. {34568}-> r8c2 = 9 -> r8c3 = 5 -> r6c2 = 5 -> rest of 26(5) in n7 = {3468} -> r9c23 = {27} but this means the remaining cell in 19(3) = 10 [edit]

9. 26(5)n47 must have 1/2 -> r7c2 = {12}

10. 5(2) c2 = {14/23} = [1/2..]
10a. Killer pair {12} with r7c2:locked for c2
10b. {12} required in both 26(5)n47 and 17(4)n478 are locked in r7c234 or r8c4 -> no 2 r7c56 [edit: step10b not valid: can have 1 in both r7c2 & r8c4 with 2 in r9c3. edited marks pic]

11. "45"n7 -> 2 outies - 14 = 1 innie
11a. r6c2 + r9c4 = 15..18 -> min each cell = 6
11b. r7c3 = 1..4

12. "45"n7 -> 5 outies = 31

13. "45"r789 -> 5 outies = 31

14. from steps 12 and 13: r6c789 = r789c4 (might help later)

15. "45"c1 -> r67c2 - 2 = r1c1
15a. r67c2 = 7..11 -> r1c1 = 5..9

16. "45" c1234 -> r14c4 = 7 (no 789)

17. "45" n3 -> 2 outies + 3 = 1 innie
17a. min. r1c6 + r4c8 = {12} = 3 (can't have {11}:would leave no 1 for n3)
17b. min r3c7 = 6 [edit]
17c. max r3c7 = 9 -> max. 2 outies = 6 -> max. 5 in each cell

18. 18(5)n3 must have 1 and 2 -> no 1,2 r1c8

19. "45"n6789 -> r6c23 - 11 = r4c78
19a. -> min r6c23 = 14 -> no 3,4 r6c3
19b. max r6c23 = 17 -> max r4c78 = 6 -> 5 max. each cell

Code: Select all

.-----------------------------------.-----------------------.-----------------------------------.-----------.
|&#40;30&#41;                               |&#40;16&#41;                   |&#40;12&#41;                               |&#40;18&#41;       |
| 56789       3456789     123456789 | 123456      123456789 | 12345       123456789   3456789   | 12345678  |
&#58;-----------.-----------.           '-----------.           &#58;-----------.-----------------------&#58;           |
|&#40;18&#41;       |&#40;5&#41;        |                       |           |&#40;26&#41;       |&#40;12&#41;                   |           |
| 3456789   | 1234      | 123456789   123456789 | 123456789 | 23456789  | 345789      345789    | 12345678  |
|           |           &#58;-----------------------&#58;           |           '-----------.-----------'           |
|           |           |&#40;18&#41;                   |           |                       |                       |
| 3456789   | 1234      | 123456789   123456789 | 123456789 | 23456789    6789      | 12345678    12345678  |
|           &#58;-----------'           .-----------'-----------'-----------.           |           .-----------&#58;
|           |                       |&#40;22&#41;                               |           |           |&#40;14&#41;       |
| 3456789   | 3456789     3456789   | 123456      123456789   123456789 | 2345      | 12345     | 5689      |
&#58;-----------+-----------------------+-----------.           .-----------+-----------'-----------&#58;           |
|&#40;3&#41;        |&#40;11&#41;                   |&#40;12&#41;       |           |&#40;11&#41;       |&#40;11&#41;                   |           |
| 12        | 345678      345678    | 45789     | 2356      | 123467    | 234789      234789    | 5689      |
|           &#58;-----------.-----------&#58;           &#58;-----------'           &#58;-----------------------+-----------&#58;
|           |&#40;26&#41;       |&#40;17&#41;       |           |                       |&#40;23&#41;                   |&#40;14&#41;       |
| 12        | 6789      | 56789     | 34578     | 12345678    12345678  | 123456789   123456789 | 123456789 |
&#58;-----------'           |           '-----------+-----------.-----------'           .-----------&#58;           |
|                       |                       |&#40;22&#41;       |                       |&#40;7&#41;        |           |
| 3456789     12        | 1234        23456789  | 23456789  | 23456789    23456789  | 23456     | 23456789  |
|           .-----------'-----------.           |           &#58;-----------------------&#58;           |           |
|           |&#40;14&#41;                   |           |           |&#40;24&#41;                   |           |           |
| 3456789   | 5689        5689      | 123456789 | 123456789 | 123456789   123456789 | 12345     | 123456789 |
|           &#58;-----------------------'-----------&#58;           '-----------.           '-----------'-----------&#58;
|           |&#40;19&#41;                               |                       |                                   |
| 3456789   | 3456789     23456789    6789      | 123456789   123456789 | 123456789   123456789   123456789 |
'-----------'-----------------------------------'-----------------------'-----------------------------------'

rcbroughton · Post by **rcbroughton** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:08 pm

OK, Ed

I can get you a few more moves, but these are both really tough. Very difficult to see anything to break them open;

20. 12(3) in n23 - only combo with 9 is {129} - no 1 or 2 in r1c8 so can't have 9 in r1c7

21. 26(4) n236 no 2,3 in r23c6 - here's why:
21a only combo with 3 is {3689} - 6,8,9 can only be in r23c6 & r3c7
21b. only combo with 2 is {2789} - 7,8,9 can only be in r23c6 & r3c7

22. 22(4) n5 - no 1 in r4c56 - here's why:
22a. 2 combos with 1 - {1678} & {1579} - {1489} not allowed because it would break the 12(2)n5
22b. {1678} - 7, 8 must be in r4c56
22c. {1579} - 7,9 must be in r4c56

23. 45 rule on n9 - r7c7 = r6c9+r8c6 - no 9 in r6c9 or r8c6

24. 45 rule on c9 - r34c8 minus r9c9 = 1 - so min value in r9c9 is 2

25. 45 rule on n78 - r6c23 minus r78c6 = 8 - max r6c23 is 17, so max r78c6 is 9 - no 9 in r7c6, no 7,8 in r8c6

26. 45 rule on r123 - r4c12378=20 - none of the 6 combos use a 5 at r4c8 here's why:
26a: {12359}, {12368}, {12458}, {12467}, {13457} - must use 1 at r4c8
26b. {23456} - must have 2 in r4c78
26c can't have {346} in r4c123 because it would break 11(2)in n4
26d. 3 or 4 must be in r4c78
26e - no 5 in r4c8

27. 45 rule on r1234 - r4c4569=25
27a only combo with 3 is {3589} - r4c456 is part of 22(4)n5 and must total 20,19,17 or 16 as the other cell is 2/3/5/6
27b. 20 has to be 3{89}
27c. 19 isn't possible
27d. 17 would have to be {359} but other cell in 22(4) would need to be 5 so not possible
27e. 16 has to be {358} - with the other cell 6 but this would break the 12(2) in n5
27f - no 3 in r4c56

I'll leave you to work a few more from there !!

Rgds
Richard

Nasenbaer · Post by **Nasenbaer** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:56 pm

OK, just started working on your steps, here is a first comment.

8. 26(5)n47 {34568} combo blocked. Here's how
8a. {34568}-> r8c2 = 9 -> r8c3 = 5 -> r6c2 = 5 -> rest of 26(5) in n7 = {3468} -> r9c23 = {27} but this means the remaining cell in 19(3) = 7 = {277}

This should read:
8a. {34568}-> r8c2 = 9 -> r8c3 = 5 -> r6c2 = 5 -> rest of 26(5) in n7 = {3468} -> r9c23 = {27} but this means the remaining cell in 19(3) = 10 -> not possible

17. "45" n3 -> 2 outies + 3 = 1 innie
17a. min. r1c6 + r4c8 = {12} = 3 (can't have {11}:would leave no 1 for n3)
17b. min r3c7 = 7
17c. max r3c7 = 9 -> max. 2 outies = 6 -> max. 5 in each cell

This should read:
17b. min r3c7 = 6

Para · Post by **Para** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:57 pm

17. "45" n3 -> 2 outies + 3 = 1 innie
17a. min. r1c6 + r4c8 = {12} = 3 (can't have {11}:would leave no 1 for n3)
17b. min r3c7 = 7
17c. max r3c7 = 9 -> max. 2 outies = 6 -> max. 5 in each cell

Hey Ed

Shouldn't it be min r3c7 = 6?

lol just followed your post Peter but you did a typo too there

19. "45"n6789 -> r6c23 - 11 = r4c78
19a. -> min r6c23 = 14 -> no 3,4 r6c3
19b. max r6c23 = 17 -> max r4c78 = 6 -> 5 max. each cell

Little addition
19c. min r4c7 = 2 -->> r4c8: no 5
Para

Para · Post by **Para** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:15 pm

rcbroughton wrote: 22. 22(4) n5 - no 1 in r4c56 - here's why:
22a. 2 combos with 1 - {1678} & {1579} - {1489} not allowed because it would break the 12(2)n5
22b. {1678} - 7, 8 must be in r4c56
22c. {1579} - 7,9 must be in r4c56

{1489) doesn't break up 12(2) you have {57} as possibility right?
But the eliminations are right.
45 on R1234: 4 innies: R4C4569 = 25: max R4C4 = 6 -->> min R4C569 = 19: no 1

27. 45 rule on r1234 - r4c4569=25
27a only combo with 3 is {3589} - r4c456 is part of 22(4)n5 and must total 20,19,17 or 16 as the other cell is 2/3/5/6
27b. 20 has to be 3{89}
27c. 19 isn't possible
27d. 17 would have to be {359} but other cell in 22(4) would need to be 5 so not possible
27e. 16 has to be {358} - with the other cell 6 but this would break the 12(2) in n5
27f - no 3 in r4c56

What about {3679}?
{3679} both 3 and 7 locked in R4C456.
{367} --> R5C5 = 6: contradiction: 2 6's
{379} --> R5C5 = 3: contradiction: 2 3's
OBviously clear this doesn't work in 22(4) but still.

Still eliminations stand.

greetings

Para

Nasenbaer · Post by **Nasenbaer** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:37 pm

Sorry, corrected it right away (that's what happens when you do cut&paste and get distracted by a PM)

{1489) doesn't break up 12(2) you have {57} as possibility right?

Correct, but {1489} is not placable in 22(4) because there is no 4 possible in r5c5 ([1]{89} has to be in r4c456}

Now I have some steps:

28. c9 : 14(3) = {149|167|239|248|257|347} ({158|356} blocked by 14(2))

29. no 1 in r1c4
29a. r1c4 = 1 -> r4c8 = 1 -> no place for 1 in N3
29b. -> no 6 in r4c4

30. no 1 in r8c4
30a. r8c4 = 1 -> r4c8 = 1 -> r1c7 = 1 -> no place for 1 in N9
30b. -> no 1 in r8c4

31. no 1 in r8c6
31a. r8c6 = 1 -> no place for 1 in N9
31b. -> no 1 in r8c6

32. N8 : 1 locked in 22(4) -> 22(4) = 1{489|579|678} -> no 2,3

33. from step 24 : 45 on N9 : r7c7 = r8c6 + r6c9 -> no 2 in r7c7, no 8 in r6c9

Nasenbaer · Post by **Nasenbaer** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:48 pm

What about {3679}?

That would mean 6 or 9 in r4c9

r4c9 = 6 -> r4c456 = {379} -> 3 in r5c5 would put 2 3's in 22(49
r4c9 = 9 -> r4c456 = {367} -> r5c5 = 8 -> not possible

Para · Post by **Para** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:57 pm

34. R7C3: no 2 or 3.
34a. R7C3 = 2 -->> R8C6 = 2 -->> no 2 in N9
34b. R7C3 = 3 -->> R8C6 = 3 -->> no 3 in N9

Nasenbaer · Post by **Nasenbaer** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:00 pm

35. N478 : 17(4) : {2357} not possible

36. N47 : 26(5) : 14{579|678} blocked by r7c3

Para · Post by **Para** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:13 pm

i saw you edited 10b. Ed but it is ok now. So let's eliminate the 2 from R7C6 now.

37. {12} required in both 26(5)n47 and 17(4)n478 are locked in r7c234 or r8c4 -> no 2 r7c56

38. 19(3) in N78: no {568}: {56}[8] and {58}[6] both clash with 14(2) N7
38a. no 5 in R9C23

39. 26(5) N47: no {23489}: no options left for 19(3) N78

Nasenbaer · Post by **Nasenbaer** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:13 pm

40. 45 on c1234 (from step 16) : no 6 in r4c4

41. no 2 in r4c56
41a. from step 27 : 45 on r1234 : r4c4569 = 25(4) = {2689} places 2 in r4c4, nowhere else possible

42. no 2 in r9c7
42a. r9c7 = 2 -> r7c2 = 2 -> r8c3 = 2, 2 locked in 18(5) in N3 -> no place for 2 in r4

Para · Post by **Para** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:17 pm

43. Hidden Killer Pair {34} in 26(5) N47 and 18(3) in N14 for C1.
Both need 1 of {34} in C1 and can't contain both.
43a. 18(3): no {567}

Para · Post by **Para** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:25 pm

44. 26(5) can't be {13589}
44a. 26(5) = {13589} -->> R9C3 = 2 -->> R9C2 = {89}
44b. 26(5) then needs 1 of {89} in N7, 14(2)N7 needs 1 of {89} in N7 and R9C2 needs one of {89} in N7: contradiction.

SudoCue Users

Rejected versions for Assassin 39

Rejected versions for Assassin 39

Re: Rejected versions for Assassin 39

Re: Rejected versions for Assassin 39