SudoCue Users Forum Index SudoCue Users
A forum for users of the SudoCue programs and the services of SudoCue.Net
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Clueless 4a
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SudoCue Users Forum Index -> Help Me! I'm stuck!
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
enxio27
Master
Master


Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:10 pm    Post subject: Clueless 4a Reply with quote

I'm working on the Clueless 4a puzzle, and I've gotten as far as I can go with the techniques I know (up through LC and XW). Now I'm stuck. What is the most difficult technique REQUIRED by this puzzle?

(I use pencil and paper to solve my puzzles. I don't use Clueless Helper because it doesn't print yet, and I've run out my free trial, although I really didn't use it.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Marlie
Master
Master


Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 167
Location: Venray Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We use a dutch forum and i can read back what we wrote about this puzzle 4 a. Ruud made it in march 26 2006.
As far as i remember only hidden pairs and hidden tripples in 4a.
You can send me what you found so far and i can control it for you. I will not give the solution but maybe there is something not good.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
enxio27
Master
Master


Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marlie wrote:
We use a dutch forum and i can read back what we wrote about this puzzle 4 a. Ruud made it in march 26 2006.


Is the Dutch forum down today? I'm trying to access it, but all that loads is the advertising banner at the top, and then the browser seems to look endlessly for something. . .

Quote:
As far as i remember only hidden pairs and hidden triples in 4a.
You can send me what you found so far and i can control it for you. I will not give the solution but maybe there is something not good.


I'll have to type in the candidates, so it may take me a bit of time, but hopefully I can work on that tomorrow afternoon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
enxio27
Master
Master


Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marlie wrote:
You can send me what you found so far and i can control it for you. I will not give the solution but maybe there is something not good.


Ok, here is what I have so far (puzzles are numbered starting in the upper left corner, from left to right, and #10 is the Clueless):

Puzzle #1:

{25689} {2589} {25689} u4 3 {256} {89} u7 u1
u3 {2589} 7 {256} u1 {256} 4 {269} {268}
u4 1 {26} 9 u8 7 u3 5 {26}
{568} {58} 1 {68} u7 u9 2 u4 u3
7 u3 {68} {268} {26} u4 u5 u1 9
{29} {29} 4 u3 u5 u1 6 u8 u7
{259} 6 {259} 1 {29} 8 u7 3 u4
{2589} u4 3 u7 {269} {256} 1 {269} {2568}
u1 u7 {2589} {256} 4 u3 {89} {269} {2568}

Puzzle #2:

{27} u4 u8 u3 9 {157} {25} {1256} {1256}
{279} {279} 3 {157} u6 {157} 4 u8 {125}
u6 5 u1 2 u4 8 u9 7 u3
{12789} {1279} 6 {15} {1278} {1257} 3 u4 {579}
4 {127} {27} u9 u3 {1567} {257} {256} 8
{23789} {2379} 5 {47} {78} {467} 1 {26} {2679}
{1257} 8 {27} 6 {127} 3 {257} 9 u4
{12357} {1237} 4 u8 {127} u9 6 {1235} {1257}
{1237} u6 u9 {147} 5 {1247} u8 {123} {127}

Puzzle #3:

{2347} {23479} {479} {3468} 5 {2368} {1236} {12368} {13689}
{2345} {23459} 1 {3468} {236} {2368} 7 {23568} {35689}
{235} 6 u8 7 u1 9 {235} 4 {35}
{15678} {157} 2 {1356} {3678} u4 9 {15678} {15678}
9 {1457} {467} {156} {78} {567} {1356} {135678} 2
{15678} {157} 3 {69} {2789} {267} 4 {15678} {15678}
{3467} 8 {467} 2 {367} 1 {356} 9 {34567}
{123467} {123479} 5 {369} {3679} {367} 8 {12367} {13467}
{12367} {12379} {679} {58} 4 {58} {1236} {12367} {1367}

Puzzle #4:

{12357} {12579} {3579} {2478} 6 {24} {189} {1359} {13589}
{13567} {1567} 4 {78} {57} u9 2 {1356} {13568}
{256} 8 {569} 3 {25} 1 {49} 7 {4569}
{367} {67} 2 u9 {14} {68} 5 {134} {1348}
9 {56} {356} {26} {14} {268} {148} {134} 7
u8 u4 1 u5 u3 u7 6 {29} {29}
{2467} 3 {679} 1 {279} 5 {479} 8 {2469}
{124567} {125679} 8 {2467} {279} {246} 3 {124569} {124569}
{124567} {125679} {5679} {2467} 8 u3 {1479} {124569} {124569}

Puzzle #5:

{34567} {35679} {469} {1345} 8 {23459} {146} {12479} {12469}
{45678} {56789} 2 {145} {149} {459} 3 {14789} {14689}
{348} 1 {49} 7 {2349} 6 {48} 5 {2489}
{13468} {368} 5 u2 {147} {3478} 9 {1348} {13468}
9 u2 {146} {134} u5 {348} {1468} {1348} 7
{1348} {38} 7 u6 {49} {489} 2 {1348} u5
{27} 4 u8 9 {237} 1 u5 6 {23}
{1256} {569} 3 {458} {24} {245} 7 {12489} {12489}
{1257} {579} {19} {3458} 6 {23457} {148} {123489} {123489}

Puzzle #6:

{12569} {1256} {257} {13467} 8 {14679} {367} {35679} {35679}
{1569} {1568} 4 {1367} {13679} {1679} 2 {356789} {356789}
{69} 3 {78} 5 {679} 2 {678} 1 u4
{37} u9 1 {368} {35} {568} 4 {3678} u2
8 {245} {235} {367} {3479} {679} {36} {356} 1
{357} {45} 6 u2 {14} {18} 9 {3578} {3578}
u4 7 {58} 9 {156} 3 {168} 2 {68}
{1236} {1268} 9 {14678} {167} {14678} 5 {34678} {3678}
{1356} {1568} {358} {14678} 2 {145678} {13678} {346789} {36789}

Puzzle #7:

{24689} {24689} u3 {26} 7 u1 {489} u5 {24689}
{2468} u7 5 {26} u3 u9 1 {2468} {2468}
{269} 1 {269} 8 u5 4 {79} 3 {2679}
{49} u5 1 {47} {289} {23} 6 {4789} {3489}
7 {2469} {2469} u1 {689} {36} {3489} {489} 5
u3 {469} 8 {47} {69} u5 2 {479} u1
u5 3 {246} 9 {26} 8 {47} 1 {2467}
{24689} {24689} 7 u3 u1 {26} 5 {24689} {24689}
u1 {2689} {269} u5 4 u7 {389} {2689} {23689}

Puzzle #8:

{2367} {2367} {2379} {2357} 8 {123579} {246} {12349} {123469}
{2367} u8 4 {237} {12379} {12379} 5 {1239} {12369}
u5 1 {239} 6 {239} 4 u8 7 {239}
{2679} {267} 8 {457} {14679} {1579} 3 {2459} {24679}
4 {236} u1 {357} {679} {3579} {26} {259} 8
{3679} {367} 5 u8 {2469} {239} 1 {49} {4679}
{237} 9 {237} 1 {2347} 8 {247} 6 u5
{18} u5 6 {2347} {2347} {237} 9 {12348} {1234}
{18} u4 {237} u9 5 u6 {27} {1238} {123}

Puzzle #9:

{2359} {12359} {1379} {25679} 8 {2579} {67} {245679} {24569}
{2589} {2589} 4 {25679} u3 {2579} 1 {25679} {25689}
{2589} 6 {79} 1 {2579} 4 {78} 3 {2589}
{34678} {348} 2 {578} {567} {3578} 9 {1456} {134568}
1 {389} {369} u4 {2569} {23589} {368} {56} 7
{346789} {3489} 5 {79} {1679} {1379} 2 {46} {3468}
{259} 7 {19} 3 {1259} 6 u4 8 {129}
{23469} {12349} 8 {279} {1279} {1279} 5 {12679} {12369}
{23569} {12359} {1369} {25789} 4 {125789} {367} {12679} {12369}

Puzzle #10:

{68} u7 u9 {15} {128} {125} {1356} {38} u4
{268} {26} u4 u9 u3 {1567} {1568} {78} {567}
u3 u5 u1 {47} {78} {467} {69} {2789} {267}
u9 {14} {68} u2 {147} {3478} {368} {35} {568}
{26} {14} {268} {134} u5 {348} {367} {3479} {679}
u5 u3 u7 u6 {49} {489} u2 {14} {18}
{47} {289} {23} {45} {1469} {159} {578} {567} {3578}
u1 {689} {36} {357} {679} {3579} u4 {2569} {23589}
{47} {69} u5 u8 {2469} {239} {79} {1679} {1379}

I've gone back and forth a number of times between the nine main grids and the tenth grid, but now I've gotten to where I can't find any more to do, which is why I thought that perhaps it needs a more advanced technique than I know how to do. Maybe I've been staring at it for too long, and I'm missing something easy. I've been writing down each step as I go, though. If you like, I can post that, too, although it will probably take me a while to type it all in.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Para
Yokozuna
Yokozuna


Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 384
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Grid 10 is already solvable. I seperated it in three steps so you can choose which one you want to use. I think after the first you can finish it. But as Marlie said nothing more difficult than naked or hidden triples. So you could try without the hints.
Just triple click the white areas to make the steps visible.


I didn't really check the rest of the grids but i assume they are solvable after you solved the "blue" grid.

Code:
.------------------.------------------.------------------.
| 68    7     9    | 15    128   125  | 1356  38    4    |
| 268   26    4    | 9     3     1567 | 1568  78    567  |
| 3     5     1    | 47    78    467  | 69    2789  267  |
:------------------+------------------+------------------:
| 9     14    68   | 2     147   3478 | 368   35    568  |
| 26    14    268  | 134   5     348  | 367   3479  679  |
| 5     3     7    | 6     49    489  | 2     14    18   |
:------------------+------------------+------------------:
| 47    289   23   | 45    1469  159  | 578   567   3578 |
| 1     689   36   | 357   679   3579 | 4     2569  23589|
| 47    69    5    | 8     2469  239  | 79    1679  1379 |
'------------------'------------------'------------------'



Step 1:

Quote:
There's a hidden triple {147} in R4 in R4C256.
Or you could take the Naked Quad {3568} in the remaining cells in Row 4, all lead to the same.


Step 2:

Quote:
Then Locked Candidates: 3 in R4 only in R4C78: 3 in R4 has to be in Box 6; eliminate 3 from other cells in Box 6.


Step 3:

Quote:
Finally Naked Triple {679} in C7 in C7R359.


After this it is all singles.

greetings

Para


Last edited by Para on Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
enxio27
Master
Master


Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Para wrote:
Grid 10 is already solvable. I seperated it in three steps so you can choose which one you want to use. I think after the first you can finish it. But as Marlie said nothing more difficult than naked or hidden triples.

Boy, I'm sure not seeing it! I went over Grid 10 again looking specifically for triples and didn't find any. Maybe I'll reprint the puzzle progress (without all of the candidates I've already eliminated) and see whether I can find them that way. If not, I guess I'll have to try one of your hints.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Para
Yokozuna
Yokozuna


Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 384
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess it is easier to pick up hidden stuff the way i work, with only writing down singles, hidden/naked subsets and locked candidates. I also find it helps to watch over the complete grid to find hidden subsets in the blue grid because you can see the aingles and locked candidates already present outside the "blue" grid.

greetings

Para
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Marlie
Master
Master


Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 167
Location: Venray Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heej Enxio
Sorry i am so late, jjust came home from my very sick parents each in a different hospital.
I looked at your blue grid
Step 1 from para is easy to understand but step 2 i don't understand.Because i never came as far as he did.
In this case i would go back to the 9 grids and ten solve till i did find a new single in blue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Marlie
Master
Master


Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 167
Location: Venray Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just looked again and found a few things


Look at the fives in grid
Look at the sevens in grid 8
Look at the 3 in grid 6 and you can place a 7
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Para
Yokozuna
Yokozuna


Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 384
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marlie wrote:

Step 2 i don't understand.Because i never came as far as he did.


I edited the explanation a little. Hope you understand now.
Don't really know what you meant by i never came as far as he did.

Good luck, Enxio!

Marlie, did you check if any of the other grids had an easier way to solve?

Just started with the 10 grid and found a pretty straight way through it, that i would use if solving normally.

greetings

Para
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Marlie
Master
Master


Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 167
Location: Venray Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hoi Para
Ja ik heb ze allemaal in sudocue gezet en doorgelopen. Er zitten in ieder geval geen fouten in want Gemma had de oplossing gelukkig nog opgeslagen en ik heb dit zover vergeleken.
Ik heb voor Enxio de hele puzzel in paint gezet zodat ze dat kan uitprinten als ik haar mailsdres kan krijgen.
Verder ben ik nu niet gekomen maar ik kan nog wel een uurtje zoeken.

Yes i pasted them all in sudocue. All she found is good.
I put the hole puzzel printable in paint so Enxio can have it when i get her mailadres.
Now i can search for a little hour before going to bed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Para
Yokozuna
Yokozuna


Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 384
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marlie

Heb jij trouwens ooit catch-22 nog opgelost? Heb hem nog steeds liggen en kijk er af en toe nog naar maar eigenlijk word ik er alleen maar gefrustreerd door. Misschien moet ik maar gewoon opgeven. De laatste oplossing is natuurlijk om de hulp van sudocue te gaan inroepen (beetje zwak, ik weet het). I ieder geval wel die koninginnedag (of is het tegenwoordig koninginnendag) puzzel af.

Did you ever finish Catch-22. Still got it lying around, but it mostly just frustrates me that i can't solve it. I might just have to give up. I could always call in the help of sudocue(kinda weak, i know). At least i finished that queens day puzzle.

groeten

Para
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Marlie
Master
Master


Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 167
Location: Venray Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aaaaaaaah waar staat die ook weer. ik heb er nog een die voor 2/3 af is maar ik weet niet meer hoe die heette.
De koninginnepuzzel is af
Ik plak alles eerst in sudocue en vandaaruit in paint. Dat streepy lekker weg en t blijft netjes.
Ik gebruik vervolgens sudocue alleen nog om alles in te vullen zodat ik een nette opgeloste puzzel overhoud. Maar laat ik nou net voor de vakantie alles verwijderd hebben behalve die ene puzzel. Zou best die Catch 22 kunnen zijn.
Ik heb wel msn als je verder wil bomen hierover je mag me altijd toevoegen en weer verwijderen. Hier mag ook maar of Ruud dat goedvind?

Sorry i don't translate this now beause it's off topic i think
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Marlie
Master
Master


Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 167
Location: Venray Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look at the 9's in grid 3
And now i am stuck too.
I will look further tomorrow but i am sure that step 2 from Para was not used in puzzel 4 a then.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Marlie
Master
Master


Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 167
Location: Venray Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grid ten (blue) a tripple in colom 7
Now you can solve the hole 4a
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SudoCue Users Forum Index -> Help Me! I'm stuck! All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group