SudoCue Users Forum Index SudoCue Users
A forum for users of the SudoCue programs and the services of SudoCue.Net
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Transformers Killer
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SudoCue Users Forum Index -> Weekly Assassins
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Para
Yokozuna
Yokozuna


Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 384
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:23 am    Post subject: Transformers Killer Reply with quote

Good morning all

It has been exactly 6 months since i posted a Killer-X on this forum, so it is about time for a new one.
I was playing around with some cage patterns and came acroos the following. It contains a little trick, that could help you in solving. There's always ways around these tricks but if you notice it all the better.

I named this Killer "Transformers Killer" because the center cages remind me of the Transformers logo, which i used to watch when i was still a little boy. That is also why there are 2 T's shaped pieces.

There are 2 versions posted below. The official version and a "Lite" version for during the lunch break(especially for Cathy, who seems to solve killer sudokus instead of eat during her breaks). Both are solvable without hypotheticals. Rating-wise i think these are about a 1.00-1.25 and a 1.75.
There is a third and fourth version available as well which. One is harder than the original, but for anyone who feels he or she hasn't had enough you can get it as well. It might need some hypotheticals. The other one is designed as a no PM killer. Andrew once asked about my other puzzles, and that is about the general level of Killers i create for more recreational purposes.

And don't forget, these are Killer-X's so both main diagonals use 1 through 9 exactly once as well.

Transformer Killer



PS:

3x3:d:k:6656:6656:6656:4611:1028:4613:5894:5894:5894:4105:6656:4611:4611:1028:4613:4613:5894:6673:4105:6656:5908:5909:5909:5909:4376:5894:6673:4105:4105:5908:5908:5909:4376:4376:6673:6673:4644:4644:2854:5908:1576:4376:4650:3883:3883:3885:4644:2854:2854:1576:4650:4650:3883:4149:3885:3885:8760:8760:8760:8760:8760:4149:4149:6463:6463:8760:3906:3906:3906:8760:5446:5446:6463:6463:6463:4427:4427:4427:5446:5446:5446:

Transformer Killer "Lite"



PS:

3x3:d:k:6656:6656:6656:5379:2564:5125:6406:6406:6406:4361:6656:5379:5379:2564:5125:5125:6406:4369:4361:6656:4372:3861:3861:3861:4888:6406:4369:4361:4361:4372:4372:3861:4888:4888:4369:4369:3876:3876:4902:4372:3368:4888:2346:4395:4395:2605:3876:4902:4902:3368:2346:2346:4395:5429:2605:2605:8248:8248:8248:8248:8248:5429:5429:7487:7487:8248:4162:4162:4162:8248:5958:5958:7487:7487:7487:3659:3659:3659:5958:5958:5958:

Enjoy everyone!!!

greetings

Para

[Edit] it seems the images aren't loading for me. I hope this problem only exists for me. Otherwise my apologies there are no images available.


Last edited by Para on Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mhparker
Grandmaster
Grandmaster


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 345
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Para,

BTW, the cage pattern looks great!

Para wrote:
I named this Killer "Transformers Killer" because the center cages remind me of the Transformers logo


Yeah, I can definitely see a face in there somewhere...

I'll try the original (that's me out of action as far as A68 is concerned then!)

Update: Standard moves exhausted and a huge forest of candidates still remaining! Looks like I'll need to find that trick Para was talking about...
_________________
Cheers,
Mike


Last edited by mhparker on Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CathyW
Master
Master


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 161
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:14 am    Post subject: Re: Transformers Killer Reply with quote

Para wrote:
There are 2 versions posted below. The official version and a "Lite" version for during the lunch break(especially for Cathy, who seems to solve killer sudokus instead of eat during her breaks).


Thanks Para - I'll try the Lite one first at lunch time today. BTW I eat at the same time!! Laughing

Update: Same as Mike but on the Lite version!!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Para
Yokozuna
Yokozuna


Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 384
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all

I have to be honest and say, you need the trick for the ratings. If you don't get it, the rating goes up substantially. No solver seems to pick up on it, but there is a way around it. The trick is something new to me but actually not that hard. But it has all to do with the cage pattern.

greetings

Para


Last edited by Para on Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CathyW
Master
Master


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 161
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't spotted it yet! scratch If "the trick" is still proving elusive by tomorrow can we have a tiny clue?! Otherwise it's probably going to take a very long time nibbling away at conflicting combinations.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Para
Yokozuna
Yokozuna


Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 384
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

If you need a hint, could you send me(by private message) your current pencilmark status or partial walk-through, just to make sure you haven't ran across the trick already without realising it.

greetings

Para
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mhparker
Grandmaster
Grandmaster


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 345
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Para wrote:
It contains a little trick, that could help you in solving. There's always ways around these tricks but if you notice it all the better.

I think I've found it! Very Happy I'm now wondering why I missed it the whole time. If I'm correct, and it really is "the trick", then it would work with any variant based on this cage pattern.

Still, although it helps, there's still a long way to go, so don't expect a WT from me that soon!
_________________
Cheers,
Mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Para
Yokozuna
Yokozuna


Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 384
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mhparker wrote:
Para wrote:
It contains a little trick, that could help you in solving. There's always ways around these tricks but if you notice it all the better.

I think I've found it! Very Happy I'm now wondering why I missed it the whole time. If I'm correct, and it really is "the trick", then it would work with any variant based on this cage pattern.


Sounds like you have it. You could always send me a message, so i can confirm if you want to.

greetings

Para
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CathyW
Master
Master


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 161
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had to have a big hint from Para about "The Trick" but have now solved the Transformer Lite. "The Trick" is clever - seems obvious once you know!! The puzzle would indeed have been very difficult to solve without it. Many thanks Para for this puzzle. Smile

Since A68 is out tomorrow, I'll let Mike do the WT for the original.

Prelims:

a) 21(3) @ r1c4 and r6c9 = {489/579/678}
b) 10(2) r12c5: no 5
c) 20(3) @r1c6 = {389/479/569/578}
d) 13(2) r56c5 = {49/58/67}
e) 9(3) @r5c7 = {126/135/234}
f) 19(3) @r5c3: no 1
g) 10(3) @r6c1 = {127/136/145/235}
h) 32(7) @r7c3 = 123{4589/4679/5678}

1. Outies c12: r19c3 = 7 = {16/25/34}

2. Outies c89: r19c7 = 13 = {49/58/67}

3. Outies r1234: r5c46 = 7 = {16/25/34}

4. Outies r789: r6c19 = 10 = [19/28/37/46/64]
-> r6c1 <> 5,7; r6c9 <> 5

5. Outies N2: r2c37 + r4c5 = 21 = {399/489/579/588/669/678}
-> r4c5 = (4…9) -> r3c456 is max 11 -> r3c456 <> 9

6. Innies N8: r7c456 = 15

7. Innies r89: r8c37 = 8 = {17/26/35}
-> r7c37 = 9 = {18/27/36/45}
-> 29(5) N7 = {9…}

8. O-I N7: r78c3 – r6c1 = 6
-> r78c3 = 7, 8, 9, 10, 12
-> r78c7 = 5, 7, 8, 9, 10

9. O-I N9: r78c7 – r6c9 = 1

10. Split 9(2) r7c37 <> 4,5:
a) 32(7) = 1235678 – no 4
b) 32(7) = 1234679 – no 5
c) 32(7) = 1234589 -> 9 locked to split 15(3) r7c456 -> split 9(2) = {18}

11. Split 15(3) r7c456 = {168/249/258/267/357}
{159/348/456} blocked by split 8(2) and split 9(2) as follows:
a) {159) forces split 8(2) = {26} no option left for 9(2)
b) {348} forces split 9(2) = {27} no option left for 8(2)
c) {456} forces split 8(2) = {17} no option left for 9(2)

12. O-I r12: r3c28 – r2c19 = 12 = (15-3), (16-4), (17-5)
-> r3c28 = (6789); r2c19 = (1234)

13. “The Trick”: r8c37 = 8
-> one of {17/26/35} must be within 14(3)
-> 14(3) = 6{17/35} -> 6 n/e N8/r9
-> r8c37 = {17/35}
Clean up: r1c3 <> 1, r1c7 <> 7

14. 32(7) must have 2 which is now locked to r7c3-7 -> r7c12 <> 2

15. 32(7) must have 3 which must be in one of r78c37 -> r7c456 <> 3

16. 16(3) r8c456 = {178/259/349/358}; {457} blocked by 14(3)/split 8(2)

17. split 15(3) r7c456 = {249/258}
-> Must have 2 thus not elsewhere in N8/r7
-> r7c37 <> 7
-> 29(5) N7 must have 2 -> 29(5) = 29{378/468/567} -> 29(5) <> 1 -> r1c3 <> 6
-> 16(3) = {178/349/358}

18. Killer pair {13}: r7c12 can’t be both {13} -> r6c1 <> 6 -> r6c9 <> 4

19. From step 8:
r78c3 = 7, 8, 9, 10 = [61], [17] ([35] blocked by split 7(2) r19c3), [63/81], [37]
r78c7 = 10, 9, 8, 7 = [37], [81] ([63] blocked since r78c3 can’t be [35], [17/35], [61]
-> r8c3 <> 5, r8c7 <> 3

20. 3 locked to r78c3, r7c7 within 32(7) -> r7c12, r3c3 <> 3
-> 3 locked to r7c37 -> r7c37 = {36} n/e r7 -> r8c37 = {17} n/e r8
-> r3c7 <> 3
-> 14(3) r9c456 = {167} n/e r9
Andrew noted r3c37 <>6 from the same logic.

21. 10(3) @r6c1 can’t have both {17} within r7c12 -> r6c1 <> 2 -> r6c9 <> 8

22. r78c3 = 7, 9, 10 = [61], [not possible], [37]
-> r6c1 <> 3 -> r6c9 <> 7
-> 10(3) @r6c1 = {145} -> 5 n/e r7/N7
-> r8c3 = 7 -> r8c7 = 1
-> split 15(3) = {249} n/e N8/r7
-> 16(3) = {358} n/e r8
-> r6c1 = 4 -> r6c9 = 6
-> r7c3 = 3, r7c7 = 6
-> split 7(2) r19c3 = [52]
-> split 13(2) r19c7 = {49}/[85]
Clean up: 13(2) r56c5 = [49]/{58}

23. 19(3) @ r5c3 = [892/982/685] -> 8 n/e c3/N4
-> 1 locked to r34c3 -> r45c4 <> 1 -> r5c6 <> 6
-> 4 locked to r23c3 -> r12c2 <> 4
-> 1 locked to r456c6 -> r39c6 <> 1
-> split 7(2) r5c46 <> {25}

24. 9(3) @r5c7 = {135/234} -> r6c8 <> 3
Analysis: r6c6 <> 5, r5c7 <> 2

25. 7 locked to r4c456 n/e r4

26. 7 locked to r23c7 n/e N3

27. Innies N3: r23c79 = 20 = {7…}

28. Innies N1: r23c13 = 19 = {4…}
Split 19(4) = {1468/2467} -> 26(5) = 359{18/27}
-> r3c1 = (78)
-> r2c3 = 6, r3c3 = 4 -> r4c3 = 1 -> r45c4 = [93] (only option)

All singles from here.


Last edited by CathyW on Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mhparker
Grandmaster
Grandmaster


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 345
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:56 pm    Post subject: Transformer Killer Reply with quote

CathyW wrote:
Since A68 is out tomorrow, I'll let Mike do the WT for the original.

OK, Cathy, here it is below. Nice to see that we managed to squeeze in WT's for both versions just before the "closing bell" for this week.

Many thanks to Para for creating a very enjoyable Killer-X!


Transformer Killer Walkthrough

1. 4(2)n2 = {13}, locked for c5 and n2
1a. -> 6(2)n5 = {24}, locked for c5 and n5

2. 26(4)n36: no 1

3. 11(3)n45: no 9

4. Outies c12 = r19c3 = 10(2): no 5

5. Outies c89 = r19c7 = 11(2): no 1

6. Innies n8 = r7c456 = 13(3) = h13(3)n8
6a. min. r7c5 = 5 -> max. r7c46 = 8
6b. -> no 8,9 in r7c46

7. Outies r89 = r7c34567 = 22(5)
7a. -> (from step 6) r7c37 = 9(2)
7b. -> no 9 in r7c37

8. Innies r89 = r8c37 = 12(2)
8a. -> no 1,2,6 in r8c37

9. Innies r89 (step 8) "see" all of r78c456
9a. -> these two cells must map to 2 cells of 17(3)n8
9b. -> remaining cell of 17(3)n8 must be 17 - 12 = 5
9c. -> 5 locked in 17(3)n8 for r9 and n8
9d. cleanup: no 7 in r7c46 (step 6), no 6 in r1c6 (step 5)
9e. 17(3)n8 = {5(39/48)} (no 1,2,6,7) = {(4/9}..}
9f. -> r8c37 = {39/48} (no 5,7) = {(3/4)..}

10. Hidden killer pair on {17} in n8
10a. {17} in n8 only within h13(3)n8 and 15(3)n8
10b. neither of these cages can contain both of {17}
10c. -> each of these 2 cages must contain exactly one of {17}
10d. -> 15(3)n8 = {168/267} (no 3,4,9)
10e. -> 6 locked in 15(3)n8 for r8 and n8
10f. h13(3)n8 = {139/148/247} (step 10c) = {(1/4)..}, {(3/4)..}

11. 34(7)n789 contains 2 of {1234} within r7c46
11a. split 9(2) (step 7a) at r7c37 must also contain 1 of {1234}
11b. also, split 12(2) at r8c37 (step 9f) must contain 1 of {34}
11c. -> 34(7)n789 must contain all of {1234}
11d. -> 34(7)n789 = {1234789} (no 5,6)
11e. {127} in 34(7)n789 locked in r7 -> not elsewhere in r7 (r7c1289)
11f. cleanup from step 11d: no 3,4 in r7c37 (step 7a)

12. Outies r789 = r6c19 = 8(2): no 4,8,9

13. Hidden killer pair on {56} in r7 as follows:
13a. only places for {56} in r7 are r7c1289
13b. r7c12 cannot contain both of {56} due to 4 unavailable in r6c1 for 15(3)n47 cage sum
13c. r7c89 cannot contain both of {56} due to 16(3)n69 cage sum
13d. -> r7c12 and r7c89 must each contain exactly one of {56} (no eliminations yet)

14. Innies n7 = r7c12+r78c3 = 20(4), {56} unavailable in r78c3
14a. -> must contain exactly one of {56} (step 13d)
14b. also, cannot contain both of either {14} or {34} due to h13(3)n8 (step 10f)
14c. -> possible combos are: {2(369/459/468)}
14d. -> r7c3 = 2
14e. -> r7c7 = 7 (step 7a), r56c5 = [42]
14f. cleanup: no 6 in r6c19 (step 12), no 8 in r19c3 (step 4), no 4 in r19c7 (step 5)

15. I/O diff. n9: r8c7 = r6c9 + 1
15a. -> r6c9 = {37}, r8c7 = {48}
15b. -> r6c19 (step 12) = [17/53] = {(1/3)..}
15c. r8c37 = {48}, locked for r8 and 34(7)n789

16. Naked single (NS) at r7c5 = 9

17. Naked pair (NP) on {13} at r7c46 -> no 1,3 elsewhere in r7 and n8

18. Naked triple (NT) on {458} at r9c456 -> no 4,5,8 elsewhere in r9 or n8
18a. -> no 6 in r1c3 (step 4), no 3 in r1c6 (step 5)

19. NT on {267} at r8c456 -> no 2,6,7 elsewhere in r8

20. {48} locked in n7 innies
20a. -> r7c12+r8c3 = {468} (no 5)
20b. 6 locked in r7c12 for r7 and n7
20c. cleanup: no 4 in r1c3 (step 4)
20d. r19c3 = {19/37} = {(1/3)..}

21. 2 unavailable to 11(3)n45 = {1(37/46)} (no 5,8)
21a. 4 only in r6c3
21b. -> no 6 in r6c3
21c. r6c34 cannot be {13}, blocked by r6c19 (step 15b)
21d. r56c3 cannot be {13}, blocked by r19c3 (step 20d)
21e. -> no 7 in r5c3, no 7 in r6c4
21f. CPE: no 1 in r6c12

22. NS at r6c1 = 5
22a. -> r6c9 = 3 (step 15b)
22b. cleanup: no 8 in r7c12, no 4 in r7c89

23. Hidden single (HS) in n7 at r8c2 = 5

24. HS in n7 at r8c3 = 8
24a. -> r8c7 = 4 (step 8)

25. 18(3)n56 = {189} (only possible combo, since {347} all unavailable)
25a. CPE: no 1,8,9 in r6c8

26. 11(3)n45 and 18(3)n56 form grouped X-Wing on 1 in r56
26a. -> no 1 elsewhere in r56

27. Outies r1234 = r5c46 = 14(2) = {59/68} (no 3,7)

28. 7 in n5 locked in r4 -> not elsewhere in r4

29. 7 in n6 locked in 15(3)n6 = {267} (only possible combo)
29a. 2 locked in r5c89 for r5 and n6
29b. 6 locked for n6

30. 5 in d\ locked in r3c3+r4c4 -> no 5 in r35c4 (CPE)
30a. cleanup: no 9 in r5c6 (step 27)

31. HS in r5 at r5c6 = 5
31a. -> r5c4 = 9 (step 27)

32. HS in d\ at r3c3 = 5
32a. split 9(2) at r4c34 = [18]/{36}

33. HS in c5 at r9c5 = 5

34. HS in 18(3)n56 at r6c7 = 9

35. NP on {18} at r45c7 -> no 1,8 elsewhere in c7 and n6
35a. cleanup: no 3 in r9c7 (step 5)

36. Hidden pair (HP) on {29} in n4/r4 at r4c12
36a. -> r4c12 = {29} = 11 total
36b. -> r23c1 = 5(2) = {14}, locked for c1 and n1
36c. cleanup: no 9 in r9c3 (step 4)

Last couple of moves just to quickly get down to all singles:

37. NP on {45} at r4c89 = 9 total
37a. -> r23c9 = 17 = {89}, locked for c9 and n3

38. I/O diff. n3: r12c6 = r3c7 + 13
38a. -> r3c7 = 3
38b. and r12c6 = {79}, locked for c6 and n2
38c. -> r2c7 = 2 (cage-split of 18(3)n23)

Now all naked and hidden singles to end.
_________________
Cheers,
Mike


Last edited by mhparker on Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Para
Yokozuna
Yokozuna


Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 384
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Were the ratings appropriate?

greetings

Para
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JLynn
Hooked
Hooked


Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 52
Location: Alaska

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Para wrote:
...you need the trick for the ratings.

Ah, so that's how the movie got such high ratings. We were all tricked!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Para
Yokozuna
Yokozuna


Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 384
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JLynn wrote:
Para wrote:
...you need the trick for the ratings.

Ah, so that's how the movie got such high ratings. We were all tricked!


This Killer has no affiliation with the movie, just the series. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CathyW
Master
Master


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 161
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the trick, yes I would agree with 1 - 1.25 for the Lite.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mhparker
Grandmaster
Grandmaster


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 345
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:41 pm    Post subject: Transformer Killer Rating Reply with quote

Para wrote:
Were the ratings appropriate?

Yes, I think so. There were some advanced moves in the original Transformer, so I think a 1.75 rating is not a bad estimate.
_________________
Cheers,
Mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SudoCue Users Forum Index -> Weekly Assassins All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group